From: bmw320i@earthlink.net Sent: Sonntag, 14. Dezember 1997 22:52 To: Multiple recipients of BMW320i/323i-Digest Subject: Girling Caliper Upgrade The Internet Based Newsletter for and by the Owners of "The Forgotten BMW" - Est. 1996 The BMW 320i-323i Digest for the 1975-1983 320i/323i, 320/6, E21 316/318/ 320 and Baur Automobiles. BMW320i/323i-Digest Sunday, December 14, 1997 Issue 65 Today's Topics: Re: Girling Caliper Upgrade Air Flow Meter Questions Re: request for tire advice Roll over Victor Volvo calipers (again) baby 6 conversion help Re: Girling Caliper Upgrade Re: Tire buying advice thanks for the help ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 23:59:26 -0800 From: "Jack Roberts" Subject: Re: Girling Caliper Upgrade Several folks have asked about upgrading E21 front brakes, so the following is one of the most popular methods I am familiar with. This upgrade provides about 50% more pad area than stock E21 calipers and the tighter squeeze advantage of a 4-piston caliper. I did this upgrade five or six years ago so my memory may be a little fuzzy, but here goes. The calipers you want are Girling 4-piston type for vented rotors. These will fit the standard E21 3-inch mounting centers and use 77 320i or 78-83 323i (they are the same) vented rotors. These calipers are found on 260 series Volvos (and some Jaguars) from about 1975 on. Be careful though as Volvo used both ATE and Girling calipers on these models during this period. Also most did NOT have vented brakes so they may be a little hard to find at your local salvage yard. The good news is that rebuilt ones are only about $50 apiece. Also, this installation requires the installation of a tee in the brake line on each front strut and the addition of two pieces of about 8-inch long brake line since the Girling calipers require two inputs instead of the BMW/ATE caliper's one. You also need to use appropriate washers (about 1-mm thick if I remember correctly) between the new calipers and their mounting points in order to center them from side to side on the rotors. When you put everything back together you will find that the Girling caliper's pads hang over the edge of the BMW rotors about 2 or 3 mm. This is because the Volvo rotors they were designed to be used with are 260mm in diameter as opposed to the BMW's 255mm diameter. If you really want to get fancy you can slot the Girling caliper's mounting holes and aligned everything perfectly. I have not done this and have not had any problem, however. BTW this upgrade can also be used on non-tii 2002 front struts by using 80-83 320i (not 323i) hubs and vented E21 rotors. In my mind this upgrade makes a lot of sense if you are planning on upgrading to vented calipers anyway. Why not only get bigger pads at the same time and the fact that the Girling calipers are actually considerably cheaper than vented 320i/323i (ATE) calipers is another advantage. Cheers, Jack 81 323i with 2.7 78 Alpina B6 2.8 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 09:19:53 -0600 From: "Rosey" Subject: Air Flow Meter Questions Hello there Fellow Beamer Heads, This is the 3rd time I wrote this letter, but oh well. It is worth it. I have a '79 320i Fuel Injected, Manual 4 speed. I am having some troubles with my Air Flow Meter and The Relay for the Cold Start Valve, Additonal Air Slide and etc. My big question is this. On the AirFlow Meter, There is a little electrical plug that is supposed to be hooked up to it. It would have 2 wires running out, 1 is the ground and one is the #85 Pin on the Relay. For some reason, the plug is missing on my car and it has never been plugged in. What exactly does that Plug do? Anyone Know? I have read the Haynes Manual and it says nothing in regaurds to this. I am just checking. Now, here for a funny story! I was goofin around trying to make some jumper wires to the air flow meter just to find out what it would do. The fuse box cover on my car is broken at 1 end. (the end with the Horn Relay) so, therefore I could not tell which relay that was. I pulled it off and it had the same # markings for the wires as the book showed. So I thought ahh, cool this must be my relay. I proceeded to hooking up a ground wire and a power wire from my #85 pin on that relay to the Air Flow meter. When I went to turn on the ingnition, my horn went off. I shut it off and pulled the horn button off of the steering wheel, turned the ignition on again and the horn still went off. Go figure, I was hooked up to the horn relay! Jeeessh! These cars are silly! I just thought you might get a little humor out of someone else's goofs! I fixed my cold start problems by changing out the Additional Air Slide that hooks into the Cold Start Valve and tightening up my vaccum system. the car starts now, but I need to know about that Wire Plug that goes into the Air Flow Meter right next to the Fuel Distributor. What does it do? Also, If anyone has some advice in the Fuel/Air Mixture adjustment that would be great. The car kinda back fires a little when you rev it up and let off of the gas. I can't stand that! See ya!, Rosey ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:46:35 -0400 From: "Edward R. Walker" Subject: Re: request for tire advice Jan writes: > (snip) > >Should I get a plus zero fitment or go to a larger diameter wheel? >I have 13" steel rims. Are there noticable handling differences with alloy >wheels? > > (snip) > >I am thinking of not getting the plus zero fitment because of how much >highway driving I do. Because of the smaller diameter, it enhances the >problem that I have no overdrive .... ok ... I have a 3 speed automatic ... >ouch! > > (snip) Jan, I think you would find that a switch to alloy rims would not provide a noticeable handling improvement in normal street driving. Improving the quality of your tires is much more beneficial. The main benefits of alloy rims on the street are looks and, if you go plus one or more, the use of wider, lower profile tires. Going to a "plus" rim and tire combination will have no effect on the highway noise resulting from your lack of an overdrive. If done properly, the overall diameter of the wheel-tire combination (which is more important than the rim dia.) will be the same as the stock combo. If not done properly, you run the risk of more speeding tickets (your speedo will read less than your actual speed) and your acceleration performance will suffer. Ed Walker '80 323i '72 tii ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:53:01 -0000 From: "Michael Rosewell" Subject: Roll over Victor With apologies to Chuck Berry Hi Victor, Sounds like it could be your shocks and springs, mate. When did you last change them? OR have you got a roll bar fitted to the front and rear? AND are the rubbers sound? OR What speed are you turning at? mine [323i lowered uprated etc] does not roll even at quite high speed cornering. My guess is that your shocks and springs are done. Try pushing down on the corners of your car and see if the car "soaks up" the force that you are applying or does it continue to rock? Rocking is not what you want! Not on the bimmer anyway! ;-] Hope this helps, Rock on! Michael Rosewell. Cornwall UK. '82 E21 323i doin' it! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:31:15 -0800 (PST) From: senator@ugcs.caltech.edu (Bill Bradley) Subject: Volvo calipers (again) >Just before Jack R. posts info on using the early 80's Volvo calipers I >wanted to post a warning re the Volvo rotor design from that period. The >rotors are VERY prone to warping (ie You will feel a lot of shudder in >the steering column when you apply the brakes). I would suggest that if >you are looking at the Volvo calipers you stay away from original Volvo >rotors for them. Go to IPD or some other company for a better rotor.Just >a reality check... Two points: 1) the setup being discussed is for the Volvo 240s (Four piston fixed caliper, serious racing-style brake set-up), the ones that had the problems with warping were the 740s (two piston floating caliper, not nearly as awesome on the stopping power) 2) the problem was not the rotors but the ventilation. Any rotors had warping problems on the early 740s. I'm actually beginning to wonder if all this "Volvo brakes on E21s" come from the fact that the REAR 240 brakes were the same caliper as the front 1600/2002 brakes... For the hassle involved (new master cylinder, plumbing a whole new brake line set-up, proportioning valves, and fitment problems) I'd suspect that there is probably a Wildwood or similar set-up for less hassle (A 2 piston fixed caliper with larger pistons with a larger master cylinder and adjustable proportioning valve would provide the same kind of improvement with a lot less work...) Bill '80 320i '84 Volvo 245 Turbo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 02:15:52 -0800 From: Kyle Stanley Subject: baby 6 conversion help I am currently installing a '86 eta motor with a '83 eta 5 speed into my '78 320i...and I have a few questions.......what can I do about the speedo????? Does anybody have it written down how to mate in the e wiering??? Does anyone know how much you have to have the drive shaft shortend???....and to those of you who have the e motor in a e21....how is the acceleration with the 3:64/3:90???? I am also looking for a euro rear valance, rear trailing arms, an bumpers......and the never ending search for a good dash.... Thanks Kyle alpina@telis.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:50:43 -0800 From: "Jack Roberts" Subject: Re: Girling Caliper Upgrade A couple of concerns expressed on the digest regarding this upgrade further jogged my memory. First the upgrade does not use Volvo rotors (I hope this is clear in the earlier posting) so their inherent weaknesses need not be a concern. Also Volvos utilize a weird diagonal proportioning scheme that greatly complicates brake line plumbing. BMWs do not have this "feature". As for 13-inch wheels, forget it. While I do know steel 13-inchers will clear, anyone needing this level of brake performance would be foolish to run 13-inch wheels. Simply not enough airflow space to keep them cool. These Girling calipers utilize pad number D143M, part number 17-20143M in a Metal Master. The pad surface measures approximately 3.75 by 2 inches which is virtually identical to the area of an E28 5-series pad (I have the two of them side-by-side in front of me). But remember brake performance is a function of not only pad area but composition, rotor sweep area, rotor radius, rotor thickness and caliper piston pressure. Plus the all important ability to keep them operating at the proper temperature if you want them to function the same more than once. BTW, if any of you are a bit squeamish about doing this modification on your own, the Metric Mechanic folks in Kansas City offer it as a complete kit. The price is $650 in their catalog, but my copy is a couple of years old. Cheers, Jack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 13:39:53 -0700 From: "David J. Keavney" Subject: Re: Tire buying advice Jan, First of all, if you now have four different tires on your car, I would think that you will see a dramatic improvement in ride, handling, etc with almost any set of new tires. That said, here's my limited experience with Pirellis. When I lived in the Chicago suburbs (Naperville area) I had Pirelli P500's on my car, which cost about $60/ea. I don't know how the tread design compares with the P400's, but I can't say I was very happy with them. They had terrible wet traction. I could spin the wheels from a stop even on level pavement if the road was wet. The car was also almost undriveable in the snow unless I put two big sandbags in the trunk. They lasted 32000 miles. But again, if the P400s are much different from the P500s this may not be too applicable. I now have Michelin "Rainforce" MXV which were much more pricey, but worth it, IMO. They ride and handle very well and the wet traction is much better. I can't say how they are in the snow because shortly after I got them I moved to Tucson, AZ. As for shimmying, it's true that some manufacturers are better about making sure their tires are round, but I didn't notice any difference in the shimmy when I changed tires. The only way I've found to reduce the shimmy is to have the wheels carefully balanced on the car, and to replace old, worn-out suspension and steering parts. This seems to depend on the car though, as some have reported a difference with different tires. Hope this helps! Dave Keavney 83 320i ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:12:14 -0600 (CST) From: Peter Richard Brookmeyer Subject: thanks for the help HI: Just wanted to thank everyone who emailed me suggestions about my starting problem. I think most were posted to the digest...if anybody needs more info, I'll send you the non posted responses. once again I was helped by the digest!!!! Pete Brookmeyer WUMSII (hopefully, still to be after exams) '80 320 PS: I think the chrome around the windows look much better if they are painted black---well. It makes the car look younger. Use an etching primer or the paint will fleck. Purists, ignore this. ------------------------------ End of BMW320i/323i-Digest #65 ************************************ Philip E. Clark - Digest Coordinator BMW Car Club of America New York Chapter ___________________________________________________ To subscribe send e-mail to: E21Autos@mail.earthlink.net In the body enter: subscribe bmw320i/323i-digest "your e-mail address" ___________________________________________________ UNsubscribe bmw320i/323i-digest "your e-mail address" ___________________________________________________ Send submissions and replies to: BMW320i@earthlink.net ___________________________________________________ The BMW320i/323i-Digest is supported by the members. BMW320i/323i-Digest Decals are available. 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